Episode 42: The Possibility of Inclusion: Part 2

Transcript

Arthur: This is the Inclusion Think Tank Podcast brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education where we talk about Inclusive Education, why it works, and how to make it happen.

On today’s episode, I welcome Vikas back for part 2 of our conversation. Vikas is a parent advocate, and as we continue our conversation Vikas shares what advice he has for schools and for parents who are on this inclusive education Journey.

Arthur: It’s a shame this has to be part of the conversation. But we're switching gears just a little bit, and that is, can you share some of the challenges that you have faced when working with the school district, working toward inclusion for your child?

I know you said that it was a fairly positive experience. And we all know with the positive comes a little bit of negative and challenge.

So if you could just share some of the challenges that you faced.

Vikas: Yeah, absolutely right. And I would say this way right there is every challenge produces a new opportunity. Right. So and again, giving a positive spin to what has happened through the journey.

I think the first few things. Let's talk about what's the challenges. It's that our children have different sets of disability. They have different needs. So some are more visual learners. Some may need a more quiet environment to learn. So there are different ways every child with disabilities learns.

So often what I find that one of the things that is sometimes lacking is the collaboration or communication between parents and teachers to understand what this child learns best from.

So again, I'm going to spin this what every challenge produces, it provides an opportunity for the teachers and the parents.

So having that ongoing communication with the teachers that every grade and every subject was a key to overcome the challenges, in terms of understanding the learning behavior, the learning style of my daughter.

So teachers were in constant communication with us parents, me and my wife, to say, well, we are going to begin a new chapter on our new novel of Romeo and Juliet, that’s happening right now in high school. How can we help her? Some of these abstract topics, right? Like, for example.

Vikas: So we had a discussion we talked about if you can give us great teaching material or there are some online video resources because my daughter is a visual learner, so the district or the teachers actually came back with say, here are some resources we could work with.

Now there are kids, which is not in the case of my daughter. They have certain behavior needs like sometimes kids may have certain expressions of behavior. It could be a shutdown moment or it can be a moment where they are very actively moving in a class or maybe having, creating some noises, which is not ideal for a class setting.

So what I found that this behavior challenge is actually and this is I talked with one of my case managers in middle school. She came back when my daughter had a couple of times of shut down.

She reached out and said to us, well, can you talk to your daughter and understand what we need to do differently tomorrow? So now take a moment to absorb what she asks. Right. She didn’t say, Hey, your child is a problem. She's creating some, that she's not participating in the classroom.

Vikas: But one of the things about behavior is what causes, this expression is either the child could be overwhelmed, the child could be underwhelmed, could be bored, could be tired, or find the subject that is being taught is too easy or too hard or there may be other examples of what is causing that expression of that behavior.

And I didn’t come up with this definition, of course. But the way this case manager came in approached, what do we need to do differently tomorrow for your daughter? That was such a positive. I mean, it's more often, as I said, it's an opportunity, right? That school is looking to say.

Vikas: So we had a chat with my daughter to say, What is happening?

Oh, well, my laptop key was stuck and this subject I did not understand fully and maybe I need some help on it. She was explicit. We had to talk with the case manager the next day. Oh, okay. Maybe we realized we didn't pre-teach her or we didn't give her a visual aid on this one. Okay, here comes the opportunity. How do we do this?

Now, as you go into higher grades. Yes, there's no doubt about it, that that curriculum will become more complex. The subjects will become more abstract in certain cases. And being able to understand, let's say, a topic in history that happened a few centuries ago or, something very abstract.

It requires a lot of planning between teachers and parents to say, how can I provide certain pre-teaching material or visual aid or different other methods to help children or students understand this abstract concept or a complex concept?

Vikas: Break it down into steps. So our journey has been more opportunities at every stage. How do we make my daughter understand a particular concept, or participate in a particular activity?

So when you list beyond academics, let's talk about field trips, right? So when the children go out and field trips, one of the worries like it's a large group and kids are running around, or maybe there are other people present and how do you make sure every child with disabilities safe, every child is being attended to?

So the district, again, would come up to us and say, okay, will your daughter be okay to, be with other students, will have one child be alone or, one teacher that'll take care of everyone. So we'll have that discussion. We'll have the planning. We'll show my daughter to say, okay, where you're going, you always be with the students. Don't wander around on your own.

So I would say these are opportunities for learning both for the teachers or service providers and as well as parents to say, how do you address each and every situation? Now, of course, as she's going into high school for us now, the bigger learning moment is how do you look at beyond the high school transition right.

Vikas: So whether we aspire or she aspires to actually go to college, whether it's college or community-based instruction, that job coaching. So those are your, learning moments for coming up for us and teachers to say, how do we work on this next.

So I would say the teachers always, to summarize this, I think teachers always have the right intent.

It's not that teachers do not want to include your child. It's often they lack resources, they lack help that they can receive, whether within the district or outside to make inclusion possible. I have so far not come across and not talking about just my daughter right now, that’s any child that cannot be included in a classroom.

It's just that we have to find the ways and means. You can sorry for the long narrative.

Arthur: That was great because you brought up so many important points. And one of the things you said toward the beginning, the different ways that children learn in general, just every every person in general learns different ways. And if your child, your daughter is a visual learner, how can we include some of those resources to help share the information that she is required to learn through the curriculum of the school for that grade level?

But how can you help support, the way that she learns in the way that other students may learn through visual? If reading things is not something that people enjoy If they're able to get a video of the same content, the same subject matter, or an audio version of it, that would be very beneficial to help them.

And again, and that ties into what you said toward the end there that every educator, teachers and school districts, they want to have all children included. It's just the lack of resources that may or may not be available to them, and the supports that are needed to have children included. So, it was worth everything that you said above everything that you said.

Vikas:Yeah. And I would say this right. One of the key things that works, really, the one word is communication between the teachers, the case managers or service providers and the parents. Right.

I think if there is a constant communication and teachers observe, there is an eagerness of the parents to work with especially like when in their elementary and middle school where there is, you know, most of the communication is not happening with the child, but many times it's more with the parents.

I think that communication is the number one key that makes these teachers believe they're working hard. I mean, there's no doubt about that. But when they see the parents are collaborative, and forthcoming, I think that helps them, encourages them to say, okay, the next topic, the next subject up is coming up. How can I prepare well? So that this child is successful?

And that is a key, the communication. That's an ongoing communication with the parents and the teachers.

Arthur: Yes. And that actually leads right into our last question, which communication is definitely great advice. Communication. But what other advice can you offer to districts and to parents who are on this inclusive education journey?

Vikas: I would say this I think this one let's talk first about New Jersey as such.

We and I mean, I certainly applaud, I've been associated with that NJCIE as a parent for the last five or six years. That's why our mission in New Jersey to improve inclusive education. In one of the seminars I attended last summer, I learned that we rank 50th in the nation with respect to inclusion. It's really unfortunate that we have one of the best states in the country from a typical education, but from an inclusive education, our numbers are really low.

I think they're the state and at different levels, like organizations, like NJCIE, there are a lot of resources that are available that can help districts and teachers get resources to provide inclusive education. You may have heard this often, but I would say it starts with the mindset and willingness to do it. Yes.

Is the journey easy? No it is not. There are a lot of learnings that come along the way for all sort of district professionals. Whether it’s teachers whether service related service providers, whether it's the district administrators. But it can be done, it can be incrementally done. And the key part is how do you continuously measure success and provide ways and means for teachers to be better educated people, to teach in an inclusive setting?

Vikas: I would say this way, when inclusion with most districts starts at the elementary level and the districts find a relative degree of success doing this. But as you go into middle school and high school, there's no doubt that the inclusion becomes a bigger, puzzle to solve. I would not say problem to solve, but I would say a puzzle to solve.

But it is very much doable. I see the example I could talk about from my daughter. I mean, middle school we thought was going to be very difficult. I literally had butterflies in my stomach when my daughter at the sixth grade her state. How is this going to work? I had the butterflies in my stomach when she started ninth grade.

Right. And I think, it works, right? It is possible that the subject or the curriculum as it gets harder or the pace of teaching gets faster, there are ways you can be creative on teaching every child with a disability, a grade level curriculum that is so important that the kids get exposed to the grade level curriculum with disability.

I say it this way Arthur, if you teach grade level curriculum to the kids in an inclusive setting, most of the time, your IEP goals are automatically met. You don't even let you come to a meeting because they are learning the grade level subjects. They automatically learning or meeting that IEP goals. Now, can a child who's not so expressive write three page essay? Probably not.

But can a child learn and write five sentences on a topic and still being able to express their understanding? That is the key. So it's not really. of course, the child has a disability and if I'm expecting this child be able to write a three page essay or a five-page assignment, no, But is the child able to learn the concept?

Is the child being able to express what she heard he or she has gained? That's the key lesson. So I think there are districts, if they start from the administrator level to create that measured vision on inclusion. There are a lot of districts like my daughter school district have had tremendous success doing it.

Arthur: Yes, it I really enjoyed your conversation today.

it's always great to hear real-life experiences of inclusion and how it works. And again, the challenges that the families have faced. And, you know, one of the key things that you mentioned that has, again, been brought up in other conversations I've had is communication and having that open door of communication so everybody knows what's going on that helps out so much, and is very beneficial and just the way that the content is delivered that has also been a very positive and a reoccurring theme through these conversations.

Just adapting. Like you said, no, they may not be able to write the three-page essay, but you know, in a couple of sentences, can they express that they understand what was being taught and that they were able to grasp those concepts of the, lesson? And that is, what is most important there.

Vikas: Yeah, and you asked one part the last question about parents.

I think communication is certainly the key. But the other part is I think when I my daughter was born, I think it took a while for me to even understand what does inclusion mean, what are the different school settings that are there. So the key there is to start early for the parents to start educating themselves. I mean, honestly, I learned my self a lot by attending NJCIE conferences every year, every summer.

I'll go up, show up there, I'll participate, I'll listen carefully what all these different presentations out there and educate myself, Right? Learn what are different avenues? Look, It's a blend of science and art. If I were to say, right, that is a how do you navigate through this? There are laws that provide safeguards for kids with disabilities, but then it's hard.

Vikas: It’s hard to navigate. And the key is you will have to spend time in your busy day taking care of that child, but also educating yourself to say, how do I advocate inclusion for my child? And this journey of advocacy, in early years. It's you are advocating for your child, but you're preparing a child also to be a self-advocate as they grow up into their twenties.

So early learning of how to navigate the system is also a key message, I would say to other parents that they need to spend time on this.

Arthur: Yes, again, Thank you for this great conversation. I really enjoyed it. And again, in your conversation about your daughter and her current her, currently being in ninth grade, it took me back to my ninth grade and the great, experiences that I was able to have with some of my teachers and friends who I still have today, and we are in our forties, which is hard to believe at this point.

But, thank you again for taking the time to have this conversation with me for the podcast episode. I really, appreciate it.

Vikas: Thank you Arthur, for having me.

Arthur: Oh, you're welcome. And you have a great day.

Vikas: You too.

Arthur: We thank you for listening to this episode of the Inclusion Think Tank podcast. This podcast is brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education, NJCIE. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube, Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to follow us on social media @NJCIE. Until next time