Episode 41: The Possibility of Inclusion

Transcript

Arthur: This is the Inclusion Think Tank Podcast brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education where we talk about Inclusive Education, why it works, and how to make it happen.

On today’s episode, I welcome my guest Vikas. Vikas is a parent advocate, join us for part 1 of our conversation where Vikas shares his family’s story of working with their school district so that his daughter can be included in the general education classroom.

Arthur: I would like to welcome everyone back to another episode of the Inclusion Think Tank podcast brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education. I'm your host, Arthur Aston, and I am joined today by my guest Vikas, who is a parent of a child with a disability and

Vikas is going to share his family's experience with working toward inclusive education in their school district. So thank you for joining me today.

Vikas: Thank you, Arthur. Thank you for having me.

Arthur: You’re welcome. So to start a conversation, can you share a little bit with us about your family's experience working with the school district, toward having your child included in the in school, in classrooms?

Vikas: Oh, that's a great question, Arthur. And first of all, let me give just a brief background about my family.

So my wife and I have two beautiful daughters and my younger daughter has a disability, so she has an IEP. She is a 15-year-old girl with Down's syndrome and so this is what I'm going to be centered, mostly talking about our inclusion journey her currently she is in high school. Our inclusion journey started right from elementary school when she was going into getting into the school-age in elementary grades.

We wanted to make sure she's learning and having an opportunity to be educated with her typical peers. So the current school district, my daughter is at, where she's been included all from elementary and she studied all the typical subjects from reading, social studies, math, in an inclusive setting, and then it continued. The journey continued in middle school, which may often parents or teachers find that's hard to do, but she's been included fully in middle school as well, and then her journey continued.

Right now this is she's in ninth grade, so freshman at high school really excited that,she's still continuing the path her our district is supporting to be on an inclusive journey. And so I'm looking forward to see how this journey continues until she finishes high school. I’ve been really fortunate, that some of the district's service providers, the teachers, administrators, never came back to us to say, Well, this is not working.

Vikas: So our experience has been this is very much possible and we see her making phenomenal progress studying in an inclusive setting.

Arthur:  I really enjoyed what you said, about calling it a journey. I've been doing this podcast for a while and hearing different stories from teachers and other educators and family members and parents and even self-advocates who have been on the podcast, and that’s a common theme that everyone shares, that it's not something that happens right away. It is a journey. It's a trip, that takes time to achieve.

But it's also great that you said that, your experience has been positive. And in that, the people you're working within the district, they say that it's possible. It’s not impossible. So that's the really encouraging thing for sure, I'm sure, for you and your family.

Vikas:  I use the phrase Rome was not built in a day. So, yes, the journey, what I think and I've heard your prior podcast as well and the journey references as a child is growing up in elementary school to middle school to high school and then beyond, let's say in college settings.

So the, the curriculum, the complexity of the subjects increases. And this is a how do you bring inclusion at every grade level? And I'm talking as a parent language, I'm not really into using a lot of writing and educator’s technical complex language From a parent experience, I can say every year is a new experience as as you get into higher grades and there are creative ways where inclusion can be made possible.

Arthur: Yes, it is definitely possible. That's the message that we're trying to spread through this podcast, that it is possible and that it looks different for every child. And as you said, through every grade level, that is definitely so important.

Arthur: So my next question is why do you feel that inclusive education is important and beneficial not just for students with disabilities, but for all students?

Vikas: I’m so glad you asked this question because often the subject of inclusion becomes for parents and kids, for the parents of kids with disability, it's actually a well-rounded question that inclusion is not just for the kid with IEPs inclusion is for everyone in that classroom. And it is so important to recognize that inclusion means for the whole classroom, for the whole school district, and the school.

Why I feel it is important. If you look at my experience sharing what my daughter has been through, the grades, it's actually teaching the kids, her typical peers Right. A very positive learning environment. It is teaching them the values of diversity. It encourages collaboration and teamwork. Right. And it also helps develop empathy and understanding among different students that every student is different.

Which ultimately leads to more inclusive and adaptive communities. I mean, beyond I would say some of these commentaries as you have heard, maybe I could quote one or two examples to see how it has helped, right? I've seen kids, in her classroom approach, let's say, when they were working on practicing a drama. They had to present to play in the school.

There were a lot of students who actually came forward to say, okay, to my daughter, Look, we can't do it this way. Or How about you stand next to me and I'll give you cues at the stage when you do it.

Vikas: So they were doing a science experiment, but they were trying to measure different temperatures, the heat temperature during the experiment.

Now, sometimes it's hard to pour from one test tube or some beaker to the other. So the kids were very creative. They realized, hey, we need somebody to help with recording the temperatures. And they came up to her saying, Hey, we need your help. Right? And can you record this? Can you help us record these temperatures while we pour this thing from one test tube to the other as we measure the temperatures?

I don't think any teacher or paraprofessional at this classroom or the place setting came to teach them, hey, how to include a child or every ability. So, I felt like the kids became creative. The typical kids became very, found their own intuitive ways to say, how do I include this?

Vikas: Now, these are small steps that actually teach these kids as they grew up in the society, right? How do you treat everyone at the same level? Right. It's everyone is different. Everyone has a specialty. And how do you get the best out of their specialty?

So it has been quite a learning experience, even for parents like us to say, Well, we didn't go and tell her peers to say, Hey, include my daughter, right?

But they came up with their own creative ways. And I think if they would not have had an opportunity if, let's say, my daughter or other kids with disability were in their classroom. So I quoted some specific examples beyond just maybe I would say the Academic portion of why do you think inclusion is helpful for society. Hope that is helpful.

Arthur: Yes, it is. And it goes back to another conversation I've had many times on this podcast. How other students, or children in general, understand they get it right away, and they figure out things on their own without being guided necessarily by the teacher. It's just like, okay, we need like you said, we need somebody to help us measure temperature.

So like, let's okay, let's ask and see if she can do that with this and help out.

Vikas: Exactly. And in every activity, not like if it's in a lab or if it is a collaboration exercise of a project. You're building certain slides, you're doing certain classroom collaborative activities. Not everyone does the same thing. It's everybody has a role to play.

And these are typical peers of my daughter. They come up with creative ways every time to say, how do I, how do we work with my daughter? And when she comes home, she's very happy.

Vikas: And she said, I worked with my peers. I work with other kids to do such and such. This was my PowerPoint presentation I created. This was a lab book we created. This was a sports activity I was working doing, or it was a play that I was participating in.

It's not just academic stuff like your science, math, and social studies, it’s an academic setting. You're just going through the subject and the curriculum. There are various opportunities during their entire school day where the typical kids find creative ways to include everyone.

Arthur: Yeah, that's so good to hear.

Vikas: So I find this as a self-fulfilling prophecy. I mean, I didn't even have to really study a book on inclusion, or what It brings as a benefit to society. I see these kids, they are really coming forward and it's really a positive one by which school districts can set an example to every typical child.

Arthur: Yes, as you were talking, I was remembering back and back when I was in school and high school especially, and having a disability myself and not being able to do certain things physically. And one of the things I was thinking of was I really enjoyed theater. But, I wouldn't be able to participate necessarily in acting or doing certain things.

So the theater teacher at my school was like, okay, well, whenever we have a play, you're going to be our house manager and you're going to be involved in the background and seating and all of those types of things and learning that side of of the theater world, you know, but then still be able to be there through the rehearsals and everything like that.

So it was really just a way to be included and not excluded from something that I enjoyed doing, although I wasn't physically able to participate in certain things.

Vikas: Exactly. And that is like if I were to extend further, I actually was invited to my daughter's school to speak to so the students would take special ed as an elective, like in the end of high school.

And I asked the students to say, Raise your hand if you feel you want to include the student in your classroom, but you have hesitation about how to approach them.

There are quite a few hands came up in the classroom and said they were pretty, I think, brave in confessing or being able to admit, Look, I want to work with every kid in the class or this particular child in the class which has a disability. I'm a little hesitant in approaching, but over a period of time I learned my ways and figured it out.

How are the ways I can approach maybe sit at the lunch table or when I'm having a recess, include a child in a sport activity?

Vikas: I am certain these kids are typical peers. When they grow up, they are going to be great citizens of the society where they have learned something during this inclusive experience they have had in their elementary, middle, and high school that they can carry into the general society as they grow up.

Arthur: Yes, And it just starts, as you said, it starts with something as simple as simply saying hello to someone, inviting them to lunch, and sit at the lunch table with them, something so simple.

And again, I really enjoy having these conversations because it really takes me back to my time as a student, and just thinking of what you said, having someone invite you to sit at, you know, at lunch or something like that. That’s how I met one of my best friends who, you know, her kids call me uncle now.

And I went on a family vacation with them two summers ago to Maine, and it all started with her saying hi to me every day when I saw her at the same time. We just became really the best of friends. And it's great to hear that, that this is an experience that is happening for your daughter.

Vikas: So I'm glad you said that because these are some like you just need conversations starters, right? That's what I call it.

Arthur: You know, it's a shame this has to be part of the conversation. But we're switching gears just a little bit, and that is, can you share some of the challenges that you have faced when working with the school district, working toward inclusion for your child?

I know you said that it was a fairly positive experience. And we all know with the positive comes a little bit of negative and challenge. Could you  share some of the challenges that you faced?

Arthur: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Inclusion Think Tank Podcast. This concludes part 1 of my conversation with Vikas. Join us in two weeks when Vikas shares what advice he would give parents and school districts working toward inclusion. In the meantime, be sure to catch up on previous episodes of the podcast on our website or our YouTube channel, and follow us on all social media platforms @NJCIE, until next time