Episode 50: Overcoming Challenges When Working Toward Inclusion

Transcript

Arthur: I would like to welcome everyone back to a brand new episode of the Inclusion Think Tank podcast. I am your host, Arthur Aston. And today I am joined by two guests, Kevin Marra and Alyssa Rush. So thank you both for joining me today for this conversation.

Kevin: Thank you for having us.

Alyssa: Thanks for having us, Arthur.

Arthur: You’re welcome. To start the conversation, can you each share what your job title is and some of the responsibilities that you have in your positions? And can you also share a little bit about how you became interested in the world of inclusive education?

Kevin: Sure. I'll start. I'm the director of special services here in the Berkeley Heights School District.

Part of a lot of my responsibilities have to do with overseeing programs, programing for students with disabilities district-wide. My focus tends to be more at the preschool to elementary level now, and Alyssa can talk a little bit about her focus at the secondary level. Essentially, I'm helping to ensure that staff have the resources and training to provide the appropriate support for students and to create really inclusive learning environments for all diverse learners that have access.

I support the Child Study team and the related service personnel in terms of decision-making and guidance when they need it. I develop and manage a budget support and evaluate staff, and I guess it's really important to note that we do all of these responsibilities really through the lens and focus on our vision specific to inclusive education

Alyssa: I was just going to say I, I do what Kevin does, but under the umbrella of a secondary and really, I think, as Kevin said, it's just continuing to take the programing and oversee what we have going on at the pre-K and elementary and ensure that there's that continuity up through the secondary level.

Kevin: And as far as I know, you had asked about really, becoming interested are getting started in inclusive education.

I'm not sure you can get into a career in special education without being interested in inclusive education. But I can tell you that I have been incredibly fortunate in my career that started as a paraprofessional, moved to a school psychologist and then supervisor and director. I have always been surrounded by other directors who have been very adamant in promoting inclusive environments and inclusive education across the board.

So it's just really what I've known and been fortunate to come up under all the way through in my career.

Alyssa: I think I shared this in the last episode when I was on with you before, but I got into this on accident as a teacher because I love my students and I needed to get creative and in ways to to help them get what they need and ensure that I was maintaining the high rigor of instruction in my classroom.

And it just became something I lived and breathed. And continue to keep at the forefront of everything I do in education.

Arthur: That's great. I always I'm always interested in how everyone, got to become, get to where they are in life. And, ust that you you both started because you had a passion for wanting everyone to be able to learn, that's really great.

Arthur: My next question is how do you describe inclusive education and what does it mean to you?

Kevin: Yeah, I think you've started to say it there. For me, it's a culture and a belief system and it's really where all stakeholders have the mindset that everyone belongs and everyone can learn. It's an idea from an educational perspective that we as educators are truly here for all students and that the Gen-Ed, is general education it’s really for every student.

Because not only does the research support that right, but the law supports that. And at the end of the day, it's really just good and right by kids. If we're promoting an inclusive environment for all students to learn.

Kevin: So I think, that for me is essentially what our role and responsibility is as educators is to make sure that we're there and inclusive for all students, whether they have disabilities or just different strengths, different needs. That's what we're trying to do.

Alyssa: I think coming to this district, what also drew me to it was that we have a department vision that also embodies the lifeblood of what inclusive Ed means here in Berkeley Heights. And that's something that we constantly go back to. We constantly revisit. We're constantly looking for ways to infuse that in our day to day practice. And I think that, Kevin, if you wanted to speak to that.

Kevin: I’m glad you brought that up too, because one of the things we've been focusing on is really making our vision, which has been developed over the years, the driving force for all that we're doing and making sure we're going back and revisiting that with staff.

And a lot of that has to focus on really long-term goals for for our students with disabilities. And if you look at the key pieces to it, it's really about maximizing the opportunity for adult independence and success for students long term.

Creating a district-wide environment where disability is one of many differences that teachers work collaboratively to support in their classrooms.

And then really the bigger piece is the long term that I've always looked at that that I really like about the vision has to do with developing. I'm going to have it pulled up; develop a community of future leaders, adults, employers, and friends that individuals with disabilities can count on for understanding accommodation and advocacy.

Kevin: And I think to us and what we're trying to live and breathe here is that's the impact on the future.

And I think when we look at that, we're trying to create maybe pie in the sky, a society that is more inclusive and provides more opportunities for adults with disabilities as we move forward.

Arthur: I just have to say, I've done 47 episodes of this podcast and I really almost shed a tear just there. When you said that disability is just one of many differences. I was like, Well, that's so simple. That's so true. Oh my goodness. Wow. That it's like it could not have been said in a more simple and straightforward way like that.

It's just so true. It's just a difference. One of many differences that people have and the fact that you’re focusing on, like you said, the adult, the time after they graduate, that is so important that really you went there. I really appreciate how

Alyssa: You can imagine how excited I was to come join a whole team like this, and jump in with people who believe in it.

Arthur: Yes. I was saying inside, “they got it. Yes, that's it.

Kevin: I think a lot of that comes from a long-term effort across the board. And I'd be remiss if I wasn't crediting my predecessor in the role that she was Michele Gardner, who really kind of spearheaded a lot of this action going back even before my time here. and I'm in year ten.

First as a supervisor and then as director. So she's done a lot of that work. And it's been a long term process for us as a team moving forward to arrive at, I think where we are, which is a good place with still work to be done.

Arthur: Michelle is great. I really enjoy working with her now and she was a guest on the podcast too, in the early days of the podcast and now being able to work with her.

it's been really great.

So I definitely can only imagine what it was like working there with her.

Kevin: She was always keeping us on the cutting edge and I think that our goal here was to keep us ahead of the curve to do right by students with disabilities.

I think you went into this next question a little bit, but if there's anything else you would like to add, please feel free.

So the next question I have is what are some of the ways you're implementing inclusive practices at the secondary grade level there in Berkeley Heights?

Kevin: Yeah, and I think to do that, you go back a little bit in terms of, you know, all that work that had been done again, predating my time where it started at the elementary level and the focus shift, it shifted into a more of a natural environment that's been created across the board.

That was the initial work that was done as we started to move away from some of those segregated settings where, you know, students with disabilities were in those resource rooms were in traditional resource rooms. The work that was done kind of revamped what was happening at the elementary level or enhanced what was happening at the elementary level to reduce the need for segregated settings at that point in time for students with disabilities.

And so it became natural for the work to then continue up to the secondary level and to start to analyze what we were doing and say, how do we move away from those settings when we get to the secondary level? Because we have students now who have been in teaching general education environment for years to go back and then now recommend that they move up the secondary level, Oh, we're going to go back into those resource settings.

We felt like now we need to kind of revamp what we're doing. And so we did a lot of work starting really in 2015, setting up a process and goals for almost like a five year plan where we ultimately moved through a lot of research, through a lot of committee work with Gen Ed staff and administrators and special ed staff representatives towards what we call a collaborative consultative model at the secondary level.

Kevin: And for us the way it works in our district. And I know there are different variations of this out there at the secondary level, we've been able to move away from, again, those resource rooms or segregated settings and we've minimized the need for those and we're able to support students in the Gen-Ed settings through this kind of a model where a special education teacher and a general education teacher are planning together determining what the lesson objectives are, and then working from there to say what are the needs of the individual students in the classroom.

Again, thinking really just environmentally in terms of the structures of the environment, but also the lesson design and how can we implement what we need to to make the learning meaningful for our students at the secondary level.

And so in this model of special education teacher doesn't necessarily spend the entire time in the classroom. They're working with the Gen-Ed teacher to deliver specially designed instruction to support targeted needs in the classroom setting.

Kevin: So we moved to that in 2020, right in the midst of COVID and doing all of those good things. But we had already done a lot of work leading up to that, so we felt like we needed to move forward during that time. And so we're still in it and we're still working on it, and we have some ideas as to where we need to go, but it continues to be a work in progress for us.

Arthur: That’s great. The next question that I have is when we're all trying to make a change, it doesn't come without any challenges, unfortunately.

So can you both share what are some of the challenges that you have faced when trying to implement these practices and how you have addressed these challenges?

Kevin: Sure. I think it comes down and Alyssa can correct me if I'm if I'm wrong or add to what I need to.

But for me, and when we talk about this, I feel like we come across really two areas. One, it's that mindset change. I think for us, whenever you move into something like this, it's really a long term systemic change. It takes time for everyone to fully understand where it's going. And I think everyone within our district, we have a really strong staff here and we're fortunate.

I don't think we can make the changes or move forward with the things we did if we didn't have great teachers, great paraprofessionals, related service, and child study team members. We really are fortunate and I don't say that lightly. We talk a lot and I talk about this all the time, but they're still moving through that idea, in my mind, of everyone who is truly living that inclusive education and believing in it.

But having that but like I believe in I fully believe in inclusive education, but. and for us, it's there can't be a but. And so it's really moving through that mindset change. And I think part of that is it's hard. It's very hard. And I said we have a very strong staff who does a really good work across the board.

Kevin: And now we've thrown a model change with this kind of mindset into it and moved and had students move out of those segregated settings, which is great. But now we've got to support the teachers and continue to try and support the teachers.

I mean, that comes with accessing resources, training, providing guidance and coaching along the way to help build those skills and really more that confidence level of how to do this and how to do this well

And then the second piece that I think really is the school structure itself, which is inherently has always been providing services for students with disabilities in segregated settings. It's always just kind of lent itself for that. And so we've had that conversation of you're kind of retrofitting and coming in, trying to adjust to that.

And so we've had to work through things as simple as like master scheduling, and how do we make that work to our advantage so that teachers can have planning time. And we're not perfect at that yet. And that continues to be a work in progress.

Kevin: But they can have common planning time and they can, and it works best so that students are distributed across classrooms. And so, we're not overloading classes so that we can do some really good individualized work during a time where it's hard to be a teacher.

Alyssa: I think the collaboration that you mentioned to not, you know, with the the teachers, all the staff members in addition to the administration. Right. That we're not functioning in these separate spaces, that we're coming together and really addressing problems as a team and looking at it from a solution-oriented lens.

We're looking at what those “buts. ‘I can do this, but…’ we're looking at what those “buts” are and how we can move forward with addressing them proactively and responsively so that staff feel equipped.

And then for the staff who have already maybe made some of those changes, really embracing and highlighting the expertise of those staff members who who are excited and who have figured it out and who want to share their expertise and strategies. So I think that's something we're always looking at ways to showcase and and cultivate.

Kevin: Yeah, And I think Alissa hit a point there.

We've never operated or tried to operate in isolation, so we've always been working with our fellow administrators. We wanted them to be on board. We did a lot of work with that committee, work up front, but then since we have implemented this model at the secondary level.

Like I said, it's ongoing. Special education to me is always a work in progress and you're always looking to evolve What you do and address some of the concerns.

And so we've always been wanting to take that feedback from staff and really work with that. And so over over two years we've had focus groups where we've come in and said, okay, like what are some of the barriers that we're seeing in Gen Ed that we need to try and address and we try and bring different minds in the kind of work through some of that.

Kevin: We’ve taken feedback from families and from the community and tried to make adjustments and adjust what we do there. And then we work very collaboratively with, again, some of the administrators to try and work through.

And we're fortunate to have people who are very supportive work through things like the master schedule and starting with special education and working from there to develop a structure to the day that works for what we're trying to do with this model because that was a big change even to what it meant on the master schedule.

And again, we've been fortunate because we have very supportive people here who are willing to jump in on this with us. And I think, you know, that's why we want to try and keep it going and really keep the focus on our vision.

Arthur: Yeah, I think the collaboration and being able to adjust things that had been our, a common topic, a common theme that has come up in a lot of my conversations, talking about inclusive education, just being able to adapt and collaborating and hearing everybody's input, receiving everybody's input about it has been a common theme that a lot of people have discussed on the topic of inclusive education.

So thank you both for For sharing that.

Arthur: My next question is what advice do you have for other school districts who are working to work towards an inclusive education environment in their school district?

Kevin: I for me, I would say one of the biggest pieces is, you know, that it is a long road. I think change always is in the educational world, but certainly, you know, it's going to take time.

And I think one of the big pieces and I think Alyssa has been very good about this I shared with her earlier, it's important along the road to make sure that you are highlighting and celebrating the small wins because small wins become big wins.

As you kind of put them out there along the way, because it is when you're trying to make this kind of systemic change and it's a true change in maybe some mindsets and a belief system and you're trying to live by a vision that we've developed.

It's a day it can be a day-to-day grind. And you got to remind yourself of all the good things that are coming out of this along the way. So nothing's going to change in a moment's notice and nothing's going to change it because,, we drop a training in and we do something along those lines.

Kevin: It’s really trying to reinforce all the good things that are happening day in and day out while supporting, you know, the areas that we need to support and not being afraid of those areas and not being afraid to say we've got work to do because we do. And I think we you know, we'll continue to do that work because it's important work and it's good work.

And I think for me, that's the biggest piece of advice I can give it to. You got to stick with it and you got to push through, you know, and you've got to celebrate those small wins that you have along the way.

Alyssa: I think, to connecting with other leaders who are moving forward with similar goals, being part of an inclusive leadership group, having that camaraderie, understanding that, hey, is it like it's not just me, we're not alone in this in this work in New Jersey, A lot of districts are experiencing this.

I think some of the best brainstorming that has ever happened sometimes happens through those those frustrated conversations or finding out what other districts are doing to to address some of those areas. And just knowing that there is a network that's also doing it gives you that sense of support as well.

Arthur: Yeah, not knowing that you're not out there alone is always a good I think that's a good life lesson in general.

Knowing that you have the support and just like you said, you're not alone.

You're not the only district that's that's working to make this happen in New Jersey. And, you know, just to connect with the right people to help you along your way because Kevin, as you said, yhat’ it’s a long, a long journey. So you have to, you know, keep at it and celebrate those small wins along the way.

Because when you look back, it's like they are the big wins it at all leads up to what you're working towards to create that inclusive culture. And so that's really great, great advice. Thank you both.

Arthur: My final question I shared with you is that I'm working towards creating a resource guide for about all of the podcast episodes.

So I'm asking each of our guests to provide a few resources that they would recommend to our listeners.

That can be a book, a website, an article, a video on YouTube, whatever it is that you would think would be beneficial for them to look into a website to visit, a book, to read.

Kevin: Well, I could say right away any and all resources that NJCIE provides, and I could definitely we've certainly relied on those over the years and in recent times.

And really I do, I do mean that I think we've all had access to some really great people and resources. The training that they go on have always really supported us along the lines. And we've been working with NJCIE for probably close to ten years at this point in time, at least eight or nine and have always been able to make use of the resources there.

So that would be one off the bat.

And through that for me, and again, this is kind of my predecessor moving, putting this out there for us any time you can access anything from Shelley Moore online. Tremendous resource, a tremendous way of looking at inclusive education and really sometimes makes it sound so understanding that it's hard but says it and it just seems so obvious, which is what she talks about.

Some of the things that she talks about Norman Koontz has been someone else who we've we've looked at online, but also we use this book; Being Realistic Isn't Realistic. That was something we brought into the district a couple of years ago and have it accessible for, you know, our administration and then for any teachers who want. So, you know, anything along those lines, I think we've been able to make use of.

Alyssa: I have to give a personal shout-out to Michelle Lockwood's Padlet library at NJCIE, because that has saved me and helped facilitate so many conversations with staff members or, you know, found that behavior resource they were talking about in that moment. So just kudos to that resource library as well.

Arthur: Yes. Well, thank you both for this conversation. We are recording this in the middle of summer, thank you so much for your time today to record this episode.

I really enjoyed hearing your story there in Berkeley Heights and what you all are doing to create an inclusive culture and to continue the work that has been going on there for so many years and just to celebrate differences and disability there and to just make it all work and make it all happen.

And having the students, you know, placing the students first, there is is what I really got from this conversation and preparing them for, you know, while they're in school and then also for outside of the school building after they graduate and move on.

Arthur: So thank you both for this conversation. I really appreciate it. And I hope you have a great day.

Kevin: Thank you and we appreciate the opportunity.

Alyssa: Thanks Arthur!