Episode 30: Creating An Inclusive Culture

On today’s episode, I welcome my guest Dr. Jessica Neu. Jessica is one of the NJCIE Honors recipients of 2023. Jessica is the Director of Curriculum and Instruction for the Perth Amboy School District. Join our conversation as we discuss some of the inclusive programs Perth Amboy has implemented to create a district-wide culture of inclusion.

Transcript

Arthur: This is the Inclusion Think Tank podcast brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education NJCIE, where we talk about inclusive education, why it works, and how to make it happen. The NJCIE Honors recognizes local champions who are making a difference in inclusive education for schools, children and families in New Jersey. On today's episode, I welcome my guest, Dr. Jessica Neu.

Jessica is one of the NJCIE honors recipients of 2023. Jessica is the director of Curriculum and Instruction for Perth Amboy School District. Join our conversation as we discuss some of the inclusive programs Perth Amboy has implemented to create a district-wide culture of inclusion.

Arthur: So I would like to welcome everyone back to another episode of the Inclusion Think Tank podcast brought to you by the New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education. I'm your host, Arthur Aston, and I am happy to welcome my guest on today's show, Dr. Jessica Neu. So, Jessica, thank you for joining me today for this podcast in this conversation.

Jessica: Oh, thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

Arthur Yes. So you are one of the 2023 NJCIE honors recipients. So congratulations on that. And we were just talking about the videos that we create for our honors recipients. And I was just telling you how I really enjoyed your video.

Jessica: Thank you. They are so beautifully done. Yes.

Arthur: So to start the conversation, can you just share a little bit with us about yourself, who you are, what you do? And I always like to ask people to include something fun that you like to do in your free time. If you have any.

Jessica: Well, thank you for the introduction. I am Dr. Jessica Neu, and I'm a very proud New Jersey educator who has a passion for equity and inclusive education.

I earned an undergraduate degree in special education from Penn State University. I earned a master's in Seton Hall in leadership management and policy. I have a graduate certificate from Rutgers in Applied Behavior Analysis and a Ph.D. from Columbia University in teaching as applied behavior analysis. I was a general and special education teacher, and I am now going on nine years of central office leadership experience, formerly as a special education director and now as the director of Curriculum and Instruction.

So, I have some free time. I really do enjoy my work. So I do put a lot of time into the work, but I do exercise often. I love to travel, and I just love hanging out with my husband, spending time with my friends and family.

Arthur: Yes, that's always fun. Hanging out with friends and family and the summertime here in Jersey is always a good time.

Yeah. So that's great. Can you share with us what inclusive education means to you?

Jessica: So inclusive education, to me, is the greatest equalizer in education. It means providing individualized, authentic, sustained and really meaningful educational experiences in the general education setting for all students. I believe that it is the core belief that everybody really belongs. So what better way to prepare students for post-secondary than providing them with inclusive educational opportunities that mirror the diverse world that we live in?

I truly believe that that is the ultimate role of any educator.

Arthur: Yeah, that is so, so true, like the diverse world that we live in. As I shared with you and, I've shared on the podcast before that I have a disability, I was born with it and just realizing that I, as a person with a disability, have a place in the world and, need to be included.

Especially thinking back to my school years, elementary and middle school and high school, and how I was thankfully always included in things because in society outside of that, after college, like you're expected to be included in the workplace and, all those other spaces out in the real world outside of the classroom.

So it's great to be able to have that experience start when you're young in the classroom and just give for those students with disabilities and the students without to have that experience of all being together. And, just figuring things out together is really important.

Jessica: Yeah, that's what we're preparing all students for. We're preparing them for post-secondary where they want to go on to college or join the workforce. They have to be ready and have the skills that they need to be successful in whatever it is that they want to do. And a part of that is being included in society. And our society is extremely diverse.

Arthur: Yes, absolutely. And as you mentioned, when you were introducing yourself, you are the director of curriculum and instruction for the Perth Amboy Public Schools, which is the most inclusive urban district in New Jersey. That's really great to hear.

Jessica: Yes! yes! yes! yes!

Arthur: That’s really great. So can you share some of the things that you and your colleagues there have implemented in the district to try to promote inclusion?

I'm thinking of like your Panther Life program and the unified sports Program. And I'm sure you've done a few other things there as well.

Jessica: Yeah, we are so, so proud of this accomplishment and being the largest urban, inclusive school district, public school district in the state of New Jersey is something that we hold near and dear to our hearts.

I have the fortunate opportunity to work alongside many like-minded leaders and staff, so I'm very lucky in Perth Amboy. We have expanded our inclusion opportunities for all students at the elementary level and we provided specialized research-based instructional supports, especially in the area of reading, to help promote inclusive practices for all students.

Yes. So our Panther Life program is something that we are very proud of. Students at the high school level are able to engage in meaningful work-based learning experiences and community-based instruction to really prepare them for post-secondary. We have three seasons of unified sports, which is competitive in which non-disabled than disabled peers compete. We have a soccer, basketball, and spring track program in our entire high school community really rallies around that program.

We have a very skilled and dedicated teacher, Dr. Amanda Martin, who is also the coach of many of these seasons and we wouldn't be where we are with this program without the support of all of those staff members and leaders at that high school.

Arthur: That’s so great to hear of so many programs that you have. I love the Panther Life program concept of working, just really having something to do there in the school and, you know, learning the ins and outs of all.

All of that goes into work and running a business. In the video, I think it was like a coffee shop or something.

Jessica: Yes a little pop-up that we do to expand upon that when we move into our new high school in 24-25 to open up a cafe. But the students really are in the community working in Walgreens or the Salvation Army or the Housing Authority.

We've got many community businesses that we partner with to provide students with those experiences so that they have multiple opportunities to practice different career skills throughout their high school career with us, to really prepare them for anything that they would want to do when they graduate. So we like having the students out in the community for those authentic natural experiences as best as possible.

But of course, we love having them in the building too, because the coffee's great and in the winter they have hot chocolate and so there's never a bad day with coffee and hot chocolate.

Arthur: That’s right. That is right. I'm not much of a coffee drinker, but I can agree when I do have coffee, it's like, okay, this is good. This is a good day.

Jessica: One of the best things I love about the program, too, is that they partner with the YMCA in town. And so instead of taking a traditional P.E. class at the high school, the students go to the YMCA at least one day a week, and some students go for a work experience. But everybody goes to learn about physical fitness and to maintain healthy bodies.

And so that partnership has also been really important to us.

Jessica: Wow, that's really great. Having partnerships within the community is very helpful. I think one of the things that I have learned in my life, being in my forties now, is a lot of the, I guess, misunderstandings about those who have, who live with disabilities comes from the lack of knowledge that people have and the lack of conversation that happens.

There's not much conversation about people with disabilities. So the more that we can expose the outside world to disabilities and have these conversations and have these partnerships and relationships with companies and organizations like you mentioned the YMCA, that's really, really great.

Arthur: And it builds the relationship. And it also, raises the awareness of disability.

Jessica: It raises the capacity of our community members. They're learning right alongside of us and the students. And, there are lots of times when we have to provide some friendly reminders, please talk to the student, not to not to the job coach. And but having those conversations has been very helpful to us and the partner and most importantly, to the student.

Arthur: Yes. Yeah. And to move on to our next question, I think through doing this podcast and interviewing different guests and having these conversations, one thing that comes up quite often is how are individualistic, and individualized, each case is for people who have disabilities, and inclusion looks different for every district and again, look different for every student. So can you share some of the success stories you have had with non-English speaking students who are classified for special education?

And can you also describe some of the particular challenges that may have come up?

Jessica: Mm hmm. So certainly one of the biggest challenges that have faced us and probably many districts out there is the challenge with hiring Spanish-speaking and bilingual certified special education teachers, especially at the secondary level, when we're also looking for content certification, content expertise.

So that has been a barrier. certainly. We have a beautiful dual language program in which we service over a thousand students pre-K through grade eight. We do have students with disabilities, those in the preschool dual language program, and we are looking this year to finally expand and launch a special education program at the dual language school starting kindergarten and at the elementary level.

We wanted to start this years ago and then Covid happened and then it became very difficult to find again a bilingual certified special education teacher. But we feel like we are ready with personnel this year and we're ready to launch. And we have a fantastic director of Special Services and an equally great and dynamic principal of the Rose Lopez School who are both really committed to this work and ensuring that students with disabilities will be successful in the dual language program.

Jessica: The goal of a dual language program is for students to be able to be bi-literate in that they are reading, writing, speaking and listening in more than one language. So in our district, the other language that we teach in is Spanish. So students will be bi-literate in both English and Spanish by the time that they have left our middle school, which is eighth grade and usually many years before that.

So we're hoping to provide students with disabilities that same opportunity this year as we have in our preschool level and working to expand that.

Arthur: Wow. That's really great. I love that.

Jessica: I love that too! I love it so much, because it's equity. It's just it goes beyond providing the services you're required to provide in an IEP.

I think that the IEP is a great start, but we should be doing so much more like we talked earlier about the playgrounds. There is a difference between access and inclusion and what inclusion really means is that students have opportunities to meaningfully participate in all programs that we offer, and it's our role and responsibility to help the student get there and make sure that he or she has what he needs to be successful.

So I love that I have all of my faith in our director as special services, in our principal of the Rose Lopez School to launch this to this year.

Arthur: Yes. And I like what you said that, you know, the IEP is a great place to start. Going above and beyond that is so important because you never know, what each child is capable of achieving until you raise that bar and you really, push them and challenge them to, you know, meet those goals and to, keep pushing them.

I think that's a really great thing to mention, You know, IEP is a great, great place to start, but to go above and beyond

Jessica: I feel like compliance and the special education code and the administrative code that's the minimum that's the minimum of what we're expected to do. I think ethically, as educators, we should be doing much more and going beyond compliance.

Arthur: Yes, we should. you're right about that. It's so it's so great.

Again, I shared with you and before on the podcast, just seeing how far things have come since I was a child and going to school and seeing where they're heading and, having this conversation with you now to, you know, hear about the goals there for your school district. It's really encouraging and really makes me happy to hear that this type of work is being done and people are committed to it, to making it happen.

Arthur: You talked a little bit about your time in your studies at Columbia University. Can you talk a little bit more about that and the research work that you did there on topics related to the science of teaching and more specifically the implementation of Applied Behavior analytic teaching strategies for all students?

A message from your host, in the following answer Jessica mentions she graduated in 2023, when the actual year is 2013

Jessica: I really, really was so fortunate to be a part of that program. And I graduated in 2023. The teaching as Applied Behavior Analysis Program at Columbia University provides graduate level students both theoretical coursework during the evening at the university and during the day provides practical experience in partner lab classroom sites. The comprehensive application of behavior analysis to schooling, or what we call CABAS

This was founded by Dr. Robert Douglas Greer over 40 years ago, and it's an instructional technology based on data. So CABAS is a learner-driven, scientifically validated instructional set of procedures. And we implement those procedures to address student learning and performance behaviors.

So in the CABAS classrooms, generally, a master's level university student is assigned as a teaching assistant and the PhD students are assigned as the teachers of the classrooms.

All students are provided with university-level supervisory support and in we apply the tactics, behavior, analytic tactics and strategies when students are experiencing learning difficulties. And we also conduct study replication and new research as it applies to learning procedures implemented with students with and without disabilities. So my research was on observational learning and in fact there were no disabled students in my dissertation, which was published in a couple of years after I graduated.

I don't recall the year, but I just find that remarkable. It's just how it ended up. It wasn't intended to be that way, but the teaching tactics and strategies of applied Behavior analysis are really applicable to all learners. We measure teacher performances, we measure each student's response. Each student response data are collected and those data are graphed and they are analyzed using a decision tree protocol, which is a research-based algorithm for analyzing student data.

Jessica: And when we identify a problem in the context of learning, we go to the research and the literature, and we select a research-based tactic to help the student acquire that skill that we're working on. So we measure the learn units, we call them that teacher-student back and forth interactions, and and we tie them to the state standards.

So we measure the number of student learning objectives met and the number of New Jersey student learning standards also met. So students are successful. And when I taught a fifth grade class in the CABAS program, students at that level of verbal behavior were also collecting and recording their own data. They were using the decision tree protocol themselves and some of them were even selecting research-based tactics to implement.

So CABAS is usually what people sometimes don't think it is. They hear the word applied behavior analysis and they assimilate it with a self-contained autism program usually, and they assimilate it with discrete trial instruction. But it is so much more than that programed instruction, personalized system of instruction and direct instruction all come out of the applied behavior analytic research.

And with the CABAS program, a lot of the students that we have worked with, like I said, our general education students.

Arthur: What advice can you give to school districts that may think that inclusion is difficult to achieve?

Jessica: I don’t know, if it's inclusion or it's just anything new or different, I would take the approach the same approach with inclusion as I would most other things that I may want to change from an organizational structure standpoint.

So what I did when I first came to Perth Amboy, certainly with also the help of the NJCIE, thankfully you guys are around to help with this. I prepared and presented the data to all of our key stakeholders and I think presenting the data and sharing information and knowledge is very powerful and most of the time and in many of the cases when I was working with stakeholders in Perth Amboy, people were just weren't aware of the data and they weren't aware of the research on inclusion.

Jessica: So those are sort of two, first easy steps; is gathering information and data, sharing it with key stakeholders, and then taking a look at the research and also sharing that with key stakeholders. So to me, that's the first step in the process. I think when you are wanting to make any type of systematic change, certainly from that point, hearing the concerns, the needs, the strengths of the key stakeholders and what they think that we would need to move forward in terms of resources, professional development, different types of applications, personnel is also really important.

So hearing folks and their potential concerns and needs that they may have currently in the classroom and struggles and ideas and coming up with solutions together and always trying to keep the conversation solution-oriented is a very important part of the process and coming up with a common understanding of a core set of values and beliefs that everybody can then hang their hat on.

So it's a multilayered process to get to really where you want to be. But I think if you skip any of those steps along the way, you may have some disgruntled folks that you're working with. I do feel that everybody should have a voice in the process. I have learned so much more when I have genuinely included other people in the process, because that's the beauty of working with a team of stakeholders. Not one person can ever think of anything on their own.

And so always having a team behind you and beside you and in front of you is so important to help you reach that goal. And then as the leader sharing out the goals and a timeline of when you want to meet those goals is also really important. So guiding with a clear vision is really, really critical.

Arthur: Yes, having the right people involved and I like what you said, keeping things solution-oriented. like, keep your eye on the prize and what the end goal is. Because also, as you mentioned, anything where you're trying to change has challenges. It's going to be difficult and hard to change it.

Jessica: Yes, it's hard.

Arthur: So anything that you're trying to accomplish is, you're going to come up with the roadblocks and, you have to detour a little bit and, but always remaining the solution focused is, great, great advice. So thank you.

Jessica: Yeah. Like I appreciate when people identify the challenges. I think the challenge is or when folks try to identify, you know, things along the way that may pose a challenge to what we're trying to get to is great because that will only make for a smoother process in the end. I would hate to have somebody say, Well, I probably should have told you six months ago, we don't have the money for this.

Or, you know, I probably should have told you three months ago, we've never been trained in X, so knowing barriers up front is important. But then coming up with some solutions to help with those barriers I think is equally as important.

Jessica: So I'm here, I'm all ears. Come to me with your problems and your challenges, but also come to me with your solutions.

And your idea is for moving forward.

Arthur: Yes. So important! So as we wrap up this conversation, can you share how the curriculum and instruction department can support inclusive education?

Jessica: in every way. I’m hoping are there at some point while we're still here on this beautiful earth we won't even have a special education department any longer.

It should just be the office of Curriculum and Instruction, and we support all learners. But everything that we do through the Office of Curriculum and Instruction certainly does include our multilingual learners, our students with disabilities. And it may be as simple as a presentation to staff on a new reading program. But that new reading program also has to provide accommodations and modifications for students with disabilities.

For students who are multilingual learners, staff presentations, family presentations, curriculum guides, resources that we adopt all have to have all students in mind. We're no longer talking about most. We're talking about all.

Arthur: Yes, everyone. everybody. Yes, that is so true, and that is inclusion. Like you said, it doesn't say most, it says all.

Jessica: Yeah. Perth Amboy has always done a great job with that. They have always done a fantastic job with that and that's why I, I'm fortunate to be in the position that I'm in I'm so grateful that they have given me this opportunity to be on the curriculum side because now I'm I'm challenging myself to continue to take what they have done that's been so great and to continue to enhance it and make it better.

So they've gone beyond compliance. But I want to continue pushing myself to push them to go further beyond compliance. Compliance.

Arthur: Yes. Dr. Jessica Nu, thank you for this time, this conversation, sharing the great things you all are doing there in your district to promote inclusion. And, I'm very happy that we actually met in person before I interviewed you.

We met at the summer conference a few weeks ago, so it was great to introduce myself to you then and to have a more in-depth conversation with you now during this podcast. So thank you so much for your time and best of luck to you all there and I will definitely be in touch with you soon.

Jessica: Okay Thank you so much.

Arthur: Great. We thank you for listening to this episode of the Inclusion Think Tank podcast. This podcast is brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education, NJCIE. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube, Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to follow us on social media at @NJCIE. Until next time.