Episode 21: Creating an Inclusive School Culture

On today's episode, we welcome our guest, Nicole Eredics. During our conversation, we discuss how a truly inclusive school environment goes beyond the regular hours of the school day, and the importance of training educators on what inclusion looks like in real life.

Transcript

Arthur: This is the Inclusion Think Tank Podcast brought to you by New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education, NJCIE, where we talk about inclusive education, why it works and how to make it happen.

On today’s episode we welcome our guest Nicole Eredics. Nicole is an educator and an author who advocates for inclusion of students with disabilities in the general education classroom. During our conversation today, we discuss why it is important that the school culture reflect an inclusive culture.

Arthur: I would like to welcome everyone back to a brand new episode of the Inclusion Think Tank Podcast brought to you by the New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education.

I'm your host, Arthur Aston, and I am happy to welcome my guest to today's episode, Nicole Eredics. So Nicole, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm very happy to have you as a guest and to meet you virtually.

Nicole: Thank you so much for having me. I am thrilled to be here and excited to talk about inclusion.

Arthur: Yes. Yes. So, I start off the podcast with every guest asking a version of this first question. So can you share with us who is Nicole Eredics, and can you share just some parts of your journey of becoming an educator and how you became interested in the world of inclusive education?

Nicole: Of course, yes. One of my favorite topics to talk about. Not me, I mean, inclusion. Yeah. Born and raised in Canada. I'm a Canadian transplant. I live here in the U.S. now and part of living in Canada for much of my earlier years. I went to university there and I was trained as an inclusion teacher at the time, we didn't really call it inclusion teacher.

You were just a general education teacher. But our province, which is the province, British Columbia, had mandated that all of our schools become fully inclusive. So they took away the segregated classrooms and, created classrooms with children of all abilities.

And so, my teacher training reflected that shift to fully inclusive classrooms. So that's all I've ever known as an educator. And I did that, I was in the elementary system as an inclusion teacher, which is basically a gen-ed teacher with students of all abilities.

Nicole: I Did that for, oh gosh, about 15 years and found myself in Southern California one day and noticed that things were a little different. And so, I decided to put my time and energy into just raising awareness for ways in which education can be done differently and, serve the needs of our students, especially those with disabilities.

So and aside from that, in addition to that, I've got a master's in Special Education, and wrote a book a couple of years ago. So been busy. Yeah, but I do teacher training and workshops and all kinds of stuff. So that's kind of a snapshot, of who I am and what I do.

Arthur: That’s great. I always love hearing people's stories and to see how they arrive to where they are, and it's great that you said it's, inclusion is all that you really have known, and yet it was adapted, and adopted in Canada at such an early time. So that's really always, always great to hear.

So I did some research about you and looked up some things and some podcasts and things that you have been on and discussions that you have had, and I came across one of your posts that you wrote on your blog that was called How to Include Students with Disabilities by Modifying Curriculum in Three Easy Steps.

Arthur: I was drawn to the third step, which was to use instructional strategies such as deletions, substitutions, and additions to make necessary changes to the lesson. Can you share with us a little bit more about that, and give some examples of how this can be done in the real world?

Nicole: Definitely. Yeah. Well, first of all, the purpose of doing that really is to, of course, provide our students with the same content from the general education curriculum, which is something that we do in our schools. We're providing quality general education curriculum to all of our students, and so some of our students, of course, are not yet working at the grade level that that that their peers are working.

So we want to provide them with an opportunity to experience and to access and achieve that material, but at their level, they’re present or their level of performance or ability. And so what we can do is we can look at the content and the curriculum for that particular grade level or age level and then manipulate it to make it so that it's more appropriate for a student who is working at a different level of ability.

And so you can do that by, changing the educational outcomes of the activities. So for example, if it's a complex topic like plant biology, you can break that down and make it more appropriate by having this student grow plants, or observe plant growth, or take care of plants. So you're still working within that theme of plants. You're still addressing that content, but you're making it suitable for the student who is as I mentioned, working at a different level.

Nicole: You can so you can simplify the content. You can change those educational outcomes. So if there's a math question and the idea is to solve this complex algorithm, then you can take that and change the type of algorithm that it is, perhaps maybe using the same numbers or maybe using, an operation there or breaking it down into steps and outlining the steps for the student to solve the algorithm.

So it's essentially just taking, what is happening in the classroom and making some adjustments to it, deleting the material that isn't necessary, prioritizing content that we want our students to know and to be able to have and achieve.

So that's essentially the approach a very, broad approach to modifying curriculum. And it's just going in with that premise of, okay, what am I going to do to make this accessible and achievable for my student?

Arthur: I really love that because I, know for myself, growing up a subject like math was not my thing. So to have that type of adaptation to the lesson in such a way that I would be able to learn was always helpful.

And, or even just something just as simple as having another classmate explain something to me versus having the teacher explain it, all of a sudden it was like, oh, that's what it means. It was really much easier to see it in a different way.

And I love the example you used of the plant. If you're having a subject, dedicated to plants, actually having a person go through that process of planting a seed, and watching it grow and learning that way.

I could see how that would be very beneficial for somebody who learns in that specific style.

Nicole: Exactly. Yeah, or it was learning differently or has different educational outcomes that are more meaningful to them.

More appropriate to them, because, it's about taking, like you said, material and making it not just being able to access it and help the student learn, but also to help the student understand, right? And be able to think deeply about it and apply it so there's more to learning than just being able to read the material. You need to understand it as well.

Arthur: Yes, and like you said, apply it. That is so important. I'm so glad you brought that up. I love that you used that word.

So this season, it's our second season of the podcast. And this season we are focusing on school leadership and how those in-school leadership positions can have an impact on inclusive schools, and the environment in inclusive schools.

As you mentioned, you did write a book that is titled Inclusion and Action Practical Strategies to Modify Your Curriculum. And as part of that book, you discuss the role that school leadership and staff have in making schools inclusive.

Arthur: So, that is why you are on this episode with us today. So can you share a little bit more of that with us and how you feel that school leadership and staff, have an impact on the inclusive school environment?

Nicole: Of course. And first of all, congratulations on this being the second year of the podcast. I'm a big fan of podcasts.

Arthur: Yay! Thank you.

Nicole: That’s wonderful, such a great way to share information.

So school leadership is so essential because really, I mean, they set the tone. They're the ones that are the model or the face of the school community. And so, in my experience with school leadership in inclusive schools, there's a lot of conversation and a lot of behavior that reflects inclusion.

And I can remember, so many times our principal during staff meetings, and announcements, just reiterating the fact that these are all of our students. We're here to educate all of them, to provide them with a meaningful curriculum. How are we going to do that? We're going to ensure that they're involved in all school activities.

If a student can't, for example, attend a field trip due to mobility issues, how can we facilitate that? Right? Like, how can we make that happen? Or what can we do to include the students so that every student can participate in that activity? Events, all of our dances, graduation ceremonies, parent-teacher things going on in the school, and student leadership opportunities. It included all of our students, not just a certain population.

Nicole: A lot of those activities, like extracurricular clubs, and sports happened at lunchtime, not after school, because, we have a lot of students who use buses and that would eliminate their opportunity to participate if it was held after school. So we had those activities at lunchtime.

So scheduling was a big thing. What do our schedules look like in our school? And then of course, the resources to support that. How do we allocate staff and personnel? Because, inclusion isn't something that happens in isolation. It just doesn't happen in one classroom, and it's not the sole responsibility of the general education teacher. It takes a partnership with specialists, whether they're education specialists or, physical therapy or speech-language professionals. A teacher needs to have that collaboration in order to help our students succeed.

Nicole: So, the leadership is so essential because really, as I mentioned, they're providing that message. They're providing opportunities for us to follow through on what we say we are and what our purpose is as leaders and as education staff and then the resources.

So it's definitely it's not a one-time thing. It's not a one time. Like we're an inclusive school and that's it. No, it's a day-in and day-out, consistent way of being and behaving.

It's and it's so essential. And, the impact that it has on the school community is phenomenal.

Arthur: Yes. And I like that you said consistent. That's the key. It's not a one-time thing. It's something that is consistent and it goes on and it continues.

And starting at the top with the leadership is so important, and I love that you mentioned the dances and after-school activities and things like that because that's still part of the school environment and the school culture, but it might be outside of the regular school day hours of, the 7 a.m. to 3, or whatever the hours are at a particular school, and it's still part of that school environment, the school culture.

So those are areas that need attention as well. To be mindful of the inclusion aspects of those activities. So I'm glad that you brought that up.

Nicole: Yeah, and one other quick thing I want to mention, too, and I'll speak more about it in a minute, but also providing your staff with training. Making sure that they have the skills necessary and the knowledge necessary in order to facilitate and be inclusive because that training is a big issue and a big barrier to inclusive schools, the lack of training.

Yeah, that's definitely a priority in an inclusive school, is to have good training.

Arthur: Yeah. And as you mentioned, you do some training and seminars and workshops and things. So in your work, what is the most common challenge that you find teachers have with include with including students with disabilities?

Nicole: Lack of knowledge. I think a lot of times there are just some misunderstandings and there are some concerns and fear, but a lot of that boils down to just not knowing how that or what inclusion looks like in real life.

What does that mean? What is the impact on my schedule or my daily routine when in fact, inclusion, for the most part, is good teaching, it's just good teaching. And so teachers out there are already doing a fantastic job and they're already providing many opportunities for all students to participate.

But, there is that extra step that's required. There is just becoming more knowledgeable about learning differences and learning needs. So I really think that that's definitely one of the biggest issues that are the biggest barriers that I see is just having that, I don't want to say same mindset, just having that perception or misconception that inclusion is hard and we need to break that down and provide our teachers with the resources and the knowledge and the skills in order to not have it be perceived as being hard.

Arthur: Yes. Yeah. And I think it goes back to what you were saying about it being consistent. And, that can be very helpful with doing it more and engaging, in the conversations and to learn about what inclusion actually is.

Can be very helpful to take away that stigma and the misconception of it, of it being difficult and being hard to have inclusion in our schools.

Nicole: Yeah, it's actually a very collaborative experience, very rewarding as a professional, to be able to have the supports in the school for your students.

I could go on, but in the interest of time, I'll wrap that answer up. It’s a big hot topic for me.

Arthur:  It is, and it really does need to be discussed and addressed.

So I'm glad that you brought it up and that you are bringing that to this conversation.

Arthur:  So and also, another work-related question for you. So in your work that you do, have you found an example of student inclusion that was done well where the student had more significant support needs?

Nicole: Well, in honesty, I've had a lot of those situations and seen a lot of that because that happened routinely in my previous job as a teacher. But, one situation that stands out for me is probably in the early years of teaching, one of the students in my class had mobility challenges and was working below grade level, and had some expressive and receptive communication challenges.

And so, we really worked hard to ensure that she was able to participate in various activities, and we made sure that she did have a para-educator, of course, with her to help facilitate inclusion. But we made sure that the students were aware of her, not, everything about her, but just aware of her. Certain ways of expressing herself. One of them was that when she wanted our attention, she liked to hit the side of her wheelchair.

And so, once we explained that to the students, rather than seeing it as a disruption, they saw it as a form of communication. And so, they would alert me, Mrs. Eredics, so-and-so wants your attention.

Right? So it didn't become a negative event in the classroom. We also ensured that she could access all of our class activities and field trips. I spoke about that earlier.

Nicole: On one field trip, we were going to walk to a certain location and it wasn't wheelchair friendly, the pathway. But, we ensured that she got there and we had some peers accompany her. So she chose her friends. They went by vehicle and met us there.

So it was just, we really worked hard to ensure that she didn't stand out in a way that was, ‘here we have to help her', it was a very natural experience.

We tried to make it as natural as possible, essentially. And in her work was modified, of course, and her para-educator was just fantastic. She was very well trained. And, she and I constantly collaborated in order to provide the student with opportunities and meaningful work and experiences in our classroom.

Yeah. And yes, she was one of many different students that I worked with over the years. But she stands out just because, every child has their own uniqueness and ways of communicating, ways of moving, and ways of working.

Nicole: And, once we understand and we're familiar and we're aware of what our differences are in our uniquenesses are, then, it's no big deal. It's like, it is what it is, and that's how we're going to work with it. So yeah, that's definitely an example that stands out for me.

Arthur: Yes, I truly enjoy having these conversations because it always brings up memories of my own story and my own life of living as someone with a disability. And a few months ago I was in a store and I came around the corner, I was in my wheelchair, and I came around the corner going down an aisle, and a little girl, she was maybe four years old. She jumped back and said, Oh, that's so scary.

And her mom immediately got down on the floor on her knees in front of her daughter, and she said, no, it is not scary. She said that is how he moves. That's how he gets around you. Your legs are strong.

His legs are not strong like yours. So he has to use that, that's the way he walks. He has to use that chair. It just happens to have wheels. As soon as she said that, the little girl said. ‘Oh. Okay.’

Arthur: And when you were talking about how you explained to the students the student hitting the side of her chair as a way of communicating, then all of a sudden, the students starts saying, oh, they're hitting their chair, they want your attention. They need something.

Nicole: Exactly.

Arthur: It’s so amazing how kids just get it right away.

Nicole: They’re fine with it, because we all have our uniqueness.

And I mean, I had students, I can’t tell you, I probably had more students in my classrooms over the years who were”neurotypical” in general education, but they were leaning back on their chairs, tapping on their desks, kicking their, constantly shuffling their feet.

I mean, people, we’re human, right? And they all express and move and communicate in various ways. And it's just becoming exposed to that and being comfortable with the various differences that we have. And how do we do that?

Well,  we interact. We engage with people and try to understand what it is, and what the root of it is. And even if you're younger, we're not going to understand that, but at least have people around us, people around them to support that understanding of the differences that we all have.

Arthur: So it's really important that we do talk about these things with the students in the classroom and in the school and just help break down all those stereotypes and stigmas and misconceptions about inclusion and disabilities in general.

Nicole: Exactly. Yep. And sometimes it's just a matter of giving children those actionable steps because they just don't know. Right. They haven't been exposed or they haven't interacted with anybody who has different needs, and so it's just giving them that language and those actions and behaviors and modeling for them.

Arthur: So I have one final question for you, and that is, we sometimes see that parents of children with disabilities, especially those with autism, appear to be more reluctant or adverse to inclusive education settings.

How is it that we can reach those parents who feel that a segregated placement has more benefits than an inclusive one?

Nicole: That is such a great question and it's a big one to tackle just simply because a lot of that is fear. Not knowing how their child will be supported in a general education setting, especially depending on the child's needs, sensory needs, mobility needs, and emotional needs. So having conversations, modeling what that would look like, ensuring that teachers have training, the appropriate training. Again, this goes back to creating an environment that is safe and is educational, obviously.

And I mean, outside of that, it's just really having discussion and showing examples and providing resources, providing staffing. And those are some big asks for both teachers and parents that requires an investment of time and energy.

It's not a quick fix, but as parents, I think we just really want to make sure that our kids are safe and learning. And if if schools can. Provide that. Environment for our kids. Especially students with autism, then I think you might see more parents leaning towards inclusive models.

The other piece of that, too, is having somebody having a parent or a family who has experienced successful inclusion and having them speak to the experience. Right? So they're being they're the ones that are validating and being kind of a testament to yeah when it's done properly, it can be done really well.

Nicole: So having a parent and a child speak to that experience, that successful experience that they've had, having the opportunity to see classrooms, the inclusive classrooms in action would be another one, encouraging conversations between the teacher and the parents setting up means of communication and sharing that that's going to be in place.

So lots of planning and lots of preparation, lots of reassurance, I think is really kind of the first step. And it's not an overly tangible one at that point, but once I think educators and schools understand the initial fears and concerns, they can start to have those conversations on how to address them and what the school can do to provide those supports and ensure that, the students are going to have a successful, safe experience in the general education classroom.

And I think it's huge when they look at that flip side, and I’m not speaking to every segregated special education classroom, but I think it's really important to mention that in our segregated special education classrooms, you've got a lot of students in there for the most part, with a wide range of needs, and several adults to support them. Those classrooms can be very overwhelming themselves in that aspect.

So, the general education classroom, Yes, there are a lot of kids in there as well, but it’s just it's a different type of environment. It doesn't mean it's bad, it’s just it offers a different level of activity and a different environment that may not necessarily be bad.

Nicole: So that's kind of my broad answer. It's a very difficult question because I think everyone brings their own experiences to the table and what they've heard and what they've seen. And it's hard, it’s a process to change attitudes and mindsets and definitely with parents to kind of ease their minds and. So yeah, that's my very long answer to your short question.

Arthur: Well, I appreciated that answer and I appreciated t this conversation with you. And thank you so much for taking the time to join me to have this conversation today. It was really, really great to speak with you and to learn about you and hear your background and all the great work that you're doing and the changes that that you've seen and that are being made through the work that we are all doing to bring inclusive education to the world at large.

Nicole: And having these conversations are so important and I appreciate the opportunity to be here and speak with you and a pleasure to meet you, and I'm honored to be on the podcast. So thank you.

Arthur: Yes, and thank you as well, Nicole, and you have a great day and we will be in touch.